Press J to jump to the feed. The men in the back ranks would place their shields over their heads to protect the formation from above, balancing the shiel… For more information please read our FAQ’s here. Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. # totalwarrome #totalromearena #totalwarrome2. I'd love to use it more often, but it's pointless. Can you tell me how i remove this discussion? My question was really what's the difference between the formations themselves. Certainly the former was used by the Romans earlier than Carrhae but how closely that resembled the classic "testudo" is up for debate. Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. In the testudo formation, the men would align their shields to form a packed formation covered with shields on the front and top. I thought you could just post the, Panzerkeil of course! New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. Developed by Creative Assembly and published by SEGA. In the early days of the Roman Republic, military tactics were influenced by the methods used by the successful Greek Army. To me they seem nearly identical. In a hypothetical battle between the Romans and a phalanx-using Hellenistic army (or one of the real battles between Rome and the Hellenistic successor states, like Pydna or Magnesia) , Roman soldiers would not have been arranged in the testudo formation in order to fight the enemy phalanx. use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. Workshop, The Game of Fantasy Battles, the twin-tailed comet logo, and all associated The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. The casualties from missile fire vs testudo are horrendous...much better to charge. Also if there is little difference, would not Phalanx be innefficient like Testudo for engaging in melee combat? This formation is called the "Testudo," or tortoise in Latin. Testudo was not the standard fighting formation of the Roman legions. But ranged units in this game can really hurt, especially during a siege. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. The basic Greek formation was made more flexible by Philip II of Macedon and his son, Alexander III the Great. The opposite of relentless Weapon Masters, Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies. The resulting appearance is very like that of a roof,41 affords a striking spectacle, and is the most effective of protections against arrows, which glide off from it, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Antony*.html. Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. Why would you fight the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads? registered trade marks or trade marks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. Phalanx II is great for surviving bosses' special attacks, and thanks to Aegis Boon, Holy Sabers can dish out some really impressive damage with Drive Burst III. Phalanx??? Testudo formation would help with that. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. logos, illustrations, images, names, creatures, races, vehicles, locations, weapons, You would be amazed how well you can train the 'other side of your body' if you persist long enough. The focus below is primarily on Roman tactics – the "how" of their approach to battle, and how it stacked up against a variety of opponents over time. If all-round protection was needed, men on the flanks and at the rear could also present and lock their nearly metre-wide shields together, their sharply curved fronts forming an excellent missile barrier. Please leave a comment below to express your opinions. rights reserved. The second rank held their shields out over the heads of the first, and the next rank likewise. How has it changed? Phalanx vs. Testudo 1) which one do you guys prefer and why? Since I'm new to the ways of Aleph I was wondering what unit boxes & blister packs I should buy? I'd love to know the differences. Workshop Limited, variably registered around the world, and used under licence. Its change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the dwarf shield wall it wasn't really in TT either. - Harlan Ellison, "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." characters, and the distinctive likeness thereof, are either ® or ™, and/or © Games What I'd like to know is looking at the two formations side by side, how do they appear different? The horse archers shot them to pieces, and every time the Romans would go into a testudo to protect themselves from arrows, the cataphracts would charge them, then when they left the testudo to fight the cataphracts, the Parthians would retreat and the horse archers would shoot them again. Alexander’s core unit in the phalanx was the syntagma, normally 16 men deep. Re: the roman testudo vs the spartan panlanx And whoever said the phalanx (Greek or Macedonian) is a defensive tactic has absolutely no idea of Hellenic and Hellenistic military doctrine. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum. In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. "Testudo" refers to a very specific form of formation wherein Roman legionaries would form a compact block and use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. MK7GTI2016. I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations. Rven with the improved weapons designed for cavalry charges (Asian nomads used cavalry … Warhammer, the Warhammer logo, GW, Games In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents. In many ways as their Phalanx counterparts, the testudo was a formation entirely dependent on their cohesion and command yet no so much susceptible to attacks from above and the flanks from artillery fire. Fighting a 2-front war, with a phalanx ain't a good thing. Just before contact with the enemy, the soldiers moved in very close together so that each man's shield helped to protect the man on his left. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. Im new here and didnt know that. I was thinking of buying Myrmidons, Thorakitia & Dactyl fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon. Fans of the film Gladiator can’t forget the arena scene of the reenactment of the Scypio Africanus vs. Hannibal battle. - Hubert H. Humphrey, "Never argue with an idiot. © Copyright Games Workshop Limited 2015. The phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst the testudo is not. Don't even vaguely overlap Cavalry Testudo: Doesn't even activate, broken Pike Phalanx: Not bad (generally works, at least), but still pretty spaced out. SEGA and the SEGA logo are either It would be nice to have some staying power for my skeletons (or even a reason to use them past turn 20). The question is, what formations would you classify as "phalanx" and which ones as "testudo". By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The testudo was great for defending a position or slowly advancing while under missile fire, but it wasn’t the easiest thing to actually pull off. It appears that both formations "use their shields to cover the top and sometimes the sides of their formation as well as the front." This involved the soldiers standing side by side in ranks. The shields would be held in such a way that they presented a shield wall to all sides. The scutum (English: / ˈ s k uː t əm / SKOO-təm, Classical Latin: [ˈskuːtũː]; plural scuta) was a type of shield used among Italic peoples in antiquity, and then by the army of ancient Rome starting about the fourth century BC. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain. Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. Then the shield-bearers wheeled about, enclosing the lighter armed troops within their ranks, while they themselves dropped on one knee and held their shields out before them. Creative Assembly, the Creative Certainly Dio's description fits well that of a phalanx … The only weakness i see in the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers. Moved to Chat as it is not faction or game specific. A phalanx is simply the Greek word for "shield wall" and the formations are indistinguishable from the shield walls of other cultures that used similar equipment (e.g. All Testudo was a good defense against missiles (bows, slings, et cetera) and was very useful in siege situations. Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation, and manoeuvres of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.. 148/160 Praetorians Guards(RUNNING) vs. Slingers (4 Volleys out of 25 Possible cause of Ammo) Running is 3X Faster than walking and 5X Faster than Testudo; Making Walking 75% Faster than Testudo If Walking is 1.00 Speed, Testudo is 0.57 speed and Charging 3.00 … Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). We wanted to do this legendary sight on the battlefield justice and so we have included an EXCLUSIVE Centurion model leading from the front of the formation and also added a pack of metal arrows that you can stick to the shields and the base to show how effective the Testudo is in … I urge military history buffs to focus on learning about wars that actually have been fought and from which we can learn general principles of war. Phalanx fighting on a black-figure amphora, c. 560 BC. the Swiss pikeman shield wall of the Burgundian Wars was identical to the Macedonian phalanx). Sep 19, 2013 @ 12:55am I agree, I never bother to use it. The combat formation used by the Greeks and Romans was called the phalanx. Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. Assembly logo, Total War and the Total War logo are either registered trade marks or Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum.Put this in the Atilla or Arena discussion.Then again the fact you think this should be here, means its pointless to tell you to move this to the correct forum. The soldiers in front and sides interlocked their shields. The formation of a shield wall (scieldweall or bordweall in Old English, skjaldborg in Old Norse) is a military tactic that was common in many cultures in the Pre-Early Modern warfare age. Also the magic pikes for pikemen are still not fixed yet and they shall be able … I've been thinking of buying some conversion bits and Steel Phalanx units to bring a sci-fi Roman Testudo to life on the tabletop. The Roman Testudo (tortoise) formation is probably the most recognisable battle formation in history. Additionally, it would be nice if my spearmen could form a Phalanx and deal some heavier damage to charging cavalry. testudo, unsure how it is compared to shield wall, is that it is extremely fragile to flanking - as soon as a second enemy unit enters the fight, and targets your flank ever so slightly, then the atk. The Romans adopted it when they switched from the military formation of the hoplite phalanx of the Greeks to the formation with maniples. It’s easy to see where the “tortoise” formation got its name. The Portal for Public History The testudo is a purely defensive formation. Very similarly to how phalanx formation works. Some descriptions of the testudo discriminate betw… The tactic springs from ancient Greek warfare which relied on the Phalanx formation to slowly chew up the enemy. There were multiple different fighting formations used by pre-Marian and post-Marian Roman infantry - most of which did not involve holding their shields above their heads. ... For example the Roman testudo moved on the battlefield. Another issue with atk. The first row of men, possibly excluding the men on the flanks, would hold their shields from about the height of their shins to their eyes, so as to cover the formation's front. testudo turns off. Zergle, i completely agree with you. It's simply too unwieldy of a formation. As you mentioned Phalanx was the main formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas Testudo was not the main formation of the Roman armies. trade marks of The Creative Assembly Limited. Hoplite Phalanx: Same as shield wall. Roman soldiers would not actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I thought you could just post the topics out of all the games listed. Hmmm, I love a good Phalanx but I'll have a Testudo with extra mayo plz. its allways the answer, cause I like Panzers and Keile, "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. Oh well, ignorance is bliss i guess... No need for name calling. The phalanx was an offensive formation designed to charge the … Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. I dont even have time for that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments . The last great example of maniple and phalanx battle is found at the battle of Pydna during the third Macedonian war between Rome and Perseus. 2) How has it changed from classic "Total War" games to the more modern ones? Not as good as your left hand/arm perhaps but well enough to 'get by'. You train your right arm/hand to fight effectively. wrong forum for this, I would suggest a redirect or close. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. Maximus, a former general played by Russell Crowe, turned what was supposed to be a sure defeat into a victory by using a traditional Roman army defense: the Testudo, or Tortoise.

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