Here is the common scenario: A seller is … The closing date is just such a bargaining chip, because it’s unlikely to matter one or two years from now. The 30-day rule doesn’t really exist. This is an odd occurence as far as the Southeastern Pa housing market anyway(I've never heard of it happening here) but please keep us posted on the outcome, especially if your brother decides to go through with letting the seller stay as renter (or squatter with a heep of your brothers money, wow! If the seller shows up, both the buyer and seller will present their points. Lv 7. You want to negotiate if they do such things before closing. Unwilling or unable to move out is not a valid reason to extend the closing date unlike a title issue where Seller does have an automatic 30 day extension built into the Purchase and Sale agreement. I agree I would never let someone have possession of my house once I bought it without the proper leaseback agreements in place. Don't get me started on the owners with too much stuff, that are actually hoarders. The minute I take a short sale listing I tell them to start packing. If someone really wants to sell how can they not be ready. Fair Housing: When the seller vacates, the money is released if the seller vacated on time and left the house in good condition. I have done it for a great price or in a competitive market. HUGE mistake. Failure to do so could cause a seller to have to vacate the property in less time after closing than he/she had planned. This is a house for my brother to live in. The short answer is usually “No”, but the answer deserves some clarification. Good luck trying to customarily evict someone. It all depends on how your contract is written. I only did this once, and it also was going to be a primary residence for me. Buyer’s Possession: Seller shall deliver to Buyer possession of the Property in its present or required condition, ordinary wear and tear excepted: B) according to a temporary residential lease form promulgated by TREC or other written lease required by the parties. Bad idea! With most cases, a federally backed loan can close in 30 days. Therefore there is no renters specific insurance... putting my brother at risk. Happens all the time. If he is unable to occupy the property in the stated period of time, he could face legal issues on his side. The seller wants to stay in the house for two days after closing. The 30-day rule doesn’t really exist. I have seen owners pushing TV's on wood floors before and scratching to h%ll and back. Thanks everyone for you input! The seller has the right to ask for the extra time, however, that could make the house harder to sell. Disclaimer: ActiveRain, Inc. does not necessarily endorse the real estate agents, loan officers and brokers listed on this site. My daughter put an offer in on a house and it was accepted. It's not like the police come and say "your time here is up". If the seller is planning on staying longer there must be a seller's lease back with rent, deposit and length of time negotiated. I've known several people who have done it themselves and we are doing one next week. 2. If a buyer wants to move in early or the seller stays late that's fine but everyone has to agree and somebody has to pay. I agree it would be best to have the sellers out of the house at closing and avoid legal complications later. Buyers often agree to give the sellers a week to 10 days after closing to vacate the property completely. Find local real estate meetups and events in your area. Seller wants to stay two weeks after closing. The agent works for your brother, if the agent is not doing what he asks then he needs to get a new one. Since the goal is to avoid foreclosure, it is unwise to scare off buyers by adding extra demands. 5. When the month, only need a month does longer, phones ring, tempers flare. It may be necessary to contact a real estate attorney in OH. California Real Estate Q&A Discussion Forum, New Jersey Real Estate Q&A Discussion Forum, Questions About BiggerPockets and Official Site Announcements, Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum, Coronavirus Government Assistance Programs, Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions, BRRRR - Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat, Real Estate Development & New Home Construction, Real Estate Wholesaling Questions & Answers, Rent to Own a.k.a. They were looking for flexibility on possession as much as they were looking at selling price. CAR Seller in Possession Addendum – for less than 30 days only, 1 page addendum. While the entire situation is frustrating, generally it's to your advantage to keep the sale alive. It was a young couple moving out of a parent's house, so I guess the extra 90 days didn't bother them much. Feb 24, 2017 04:48 AM. Trouble with long-time entrenched owners (and tenants) is that they are often delusional about what they can accomplish. As @Nazz Wang  mentioned, the sellers probably wanted to make sure the deal was going to close before they started putting out deposits, scheduling movers, etc. This cannot occur in a short sale because the foreclosing lender receives all the money at closing. But it was a triplex and the buyer was moving into a vacant unit. Have an amendment written for "occupancy after closing". Apparently it is more normal. No amount of money will solve that problem. The timeline from day of listing the house until closing is measured months. At lease it wasn't a contingency for the purchase of their next home. How can a Realtor make this contract, representing a buyer? As a Cincinnati resident and investor, I can tell you that this is quite common due to the long standing practice of German heritage in Ohio. Typically, contracts for the purchase of property include an agreed-upon date by which closing will occur. I'm going to talk to my attorney in the morning, but wanted to get an idea of what my options are. Rent could be determined on a "per diem" basis. Exempting Capital Gains when a property is owned under an LLC. I made an offer on a house. For this reason I said it wasn't worth it to me for the risk exposure. Maybe everything works out, or maybe 30 days becomes 45+ because their new apartment isn't ready. Keep in mind, the process for removing them from the property is exactly the same as a landlord evicting a tenant. Is your brother getting a loan that requires him to be an owner occupant? Your monthly loan payment divided by 30 or 31 days & that is the amount the seller would have to pay for each day … Written by financial journalists and data scientists, get 60+ pages of newsworthy content, expert-driven advice, and data-backed research written in a clear way to help you navigate your tough investment decisions in an ever-changing financial climate! The seller wants some extra time after closing to stay in the house. that are written by the members of this community. Or, it could leave a buyer in a "homeless" situation, if they needed to have occupancy by a specific date. The date and time set to deliver the keys and final walkthrough were today. I did it when I sold my primary residence in Texas but made the lease-back part of the contract. Hopefully your brother has some sort of basic short-term rental agreement in place. This, of course, depends on the buyer. Real estate is a business not a charity. It was rejected initially, but a week later they made a verbal counter offer and we accepted. It is important to remember that a change in closing date can affect the ability to provide/accept occupancy as indicated in the original purchase agreement. Or where they are going to go. I have a signed contract with a closing date "on or sooner" than Jan. 18th. This is not normal...it is downright frightening. I encouraged him multiple times ask his Realtor to make changes to their contract. When a deal closes the buyers are now the owners...liable for everything including accidents or damage... the sellers no longer have any interest in the property... so then all sorts of other things come into play...insurance, liability, etc. Possession at closing is the only way banks will close unless you show it is a tenant, rental purchase and you have the former owner as a new paying tenant. make an informed decision when buying or selling a house. I agree with @Guy Gimenez. The amount of time a seller will have to occupy the property after closing is negotiable between the parties. I can only imagine the problems if I would have agreed to 7 more days. How can my brother sign such a bad contract for him? The date is not always set in stone, as this provides protection for the buyer if financing proves difficult. Here are the key points. Start analyzing real estate properties, we do the math for you. The property per the contract generally says it has to be in the same material shape or better at the time of going under agreement right up to the closing. Those are the things the current owners might be worry about. I'd never let someone stay in possession of my house without having everything lined up so I could start eviction if I needed to. If the seller doesn’t respond, the court will often rule in favor of the buyer. Starnge but true. In other situations, the seller may request 30, 45 or even 60 days of occupancy after the closing of the home. Others need time to facilitate their own move and may request several days, a month or even longer. It is important for attorneys and brokers to remember these extra 30 days, when agreeing to extend closing dates. Remaining in the house after closing is an item to be negotiated in advance between seller … When buyers let the sellers stay, they often withhold a substantial amount of the purchase money as security. Once your offer is accepted, how much time do you and the seller have to prepare for closing and moving? Just heard that the sellers' house they are buying fell through and they are probably going to want more time. Such a leaseback can be great for sellers because they have the peace of mind of not moving until after the closing funds are deposited into their bank account. There is no Rental agreement,  the people will stay for free for 30 days on my brothers dime. Our buyer agent said it's normal for sellers to need 3-15 days to move. This morning, the seller called to say they hadn’t finished moving out and requested six extra days. This says they will continue with their homeowners insurance and will not damage the house. Fair Housing and Equal The buyer may have concerns that the seller may have difficulty moving out in time. The amount of time a seller will have to occupy the property after closing is … Usually 3 to 6 months. So would you move out of a house without money and then if it doesn't close you are without money and a place to sell. 1 decade ago. The 1st, 15th, and last day of the month also are very busy days for financial institutions.Also try to avoid the end of th… Get everything on paper is the key. Is it just me or could my brother be in for a mess! However, Buyer may accommodate Seller’s desire to extend and ask Seller to reimburse him or her for any additional fees incurred due to the lender fees involved for such extension. . If so, do the loan docs require that he occupy the property within some period of time? If the seller is a no-show, the judge typically sides with the buyer and grants eviction. And I doubted I could get a 30 day policy, or that they could keep their insurance policy when the property was now in my name, etc. i let the Seller of my 2 on 1 stay for 90 days. What's the reason you're reporting this blog entry? Is this actually normal? But you can't undue what's done. ibu guru. Once we had a seller need to stay and made them sign a lease and pay rent. The timeline from day of listing the house until closing is measured months. The other problem is that if they don't leave, you end up dealing with them through the courts. The seller wrote me a check to cover the stolen items and damage. Usually the rent is pro rated and it's paid to the buyers through escrow when it closes. Yes I would get a rental lease signed plus deposit and market rent just like any other renter. Insurance Coverage for Seller Rent-Backs Sometimes buyers will insist that sellers maintain their existing homeowner's insurance policies during the rent-back period. If the seller plans to lease back the property for 30 or more days, then use the form called Residential Lease After Sale (C.A.R. we all investors know a deal is never done until the closing is done and the check (or wire) hits or clears the bank. That gives the seller plenty of time to get organized for the move. We are closing on Monday, and leasing our house back from the buyers for the rest of the week so our son can finish his last week of school, then movers are coming Saturday and we're out Sunday, they are in Monday. But the owners would have to qualify as tenants. When we sold our house and buying new construction, there were delays and we wouldn't be able to move in until about three months after our settlement. All we were waiting on was seller payoff. 3. From the day of closing, the buyer is paying a mortgage, taxes and insurance. When it is sold they (owners...short sale or otherwise)are out or should be... 30 days? 1. The closing date is when all paperwork is finalized, closing costs are paid, the title is transferred, the buyer receives the keys, and the seller is free from the property. Just something to check into, and another reason he would need to be certain he could get them out quickly if they chose not to leave on their own. Why Has it taken 45 days under contract and not closed? In seller's markets, buyers will often give sellers several days to move. ActiveRain, Inc. takes no responsibility for the content in these profiles, Are there any issues with financing? There is no set rule as to when occupancy must be granted. The complaint goes to trial. In buyer's markets, buyers will generally insist upon occupancy at closing and have been known to refuse to close if the property isn't going to be vacant at closing. The full month after closing does seem long but it can be whatever length you agree to. The reason she gave is that she is concerned that the sale might fall through. Use the forms provided by the state or write it specifically in the contract what is supposed to happen and what happens next if it doesn't. These real estate profiles, blogs and blog entries are provided here as a courtesy to our visitors to help them I don't think the question is for tenants in possession. If someone is still living in the house also you can't see any unknown damage with all the stuff there. The seller would be living for free at the buyer's great expense. @Joshua D.   No. Tell the seller to move!! Are you sure you want to report this blog entry as spam? I was moving out of state and was not sure that the buyers (spotty credit) would close. Write back in September if the Seller has not closed. Sometimes sellers request to leaseback after the close of escrow. Form RLAS). 4. That gives the seller plenty of time to get organized for the move. Good point. on ActiveRain. It all depends on if there's a leaseback clause in the contract with an actual lease or not. We had no issues. It's normal.....if you can get a buyer to go for it. and Louisville real estate That could take forever. I'd do it this way too. In some cases the seller will pay rent for that time. The contract usually allows the seller 30 days to move. I've bought a lot of properties from people who would never qualify as anybody's tenants. And there is NO guarantee or recourse for my brother if they do not move out in 30 days. From your post, I presumed that this is for a primary residence for your brother? Be aware, however, that local customs do not always have to be followed. Connect with 1,000,000+ real estate investors! I kept full insurance coverage on the house. My agent re-wrote our offer with the adjusted terms and we signed. Personally,  regardless of whether it is a short sale or not, I never think it is a good idea for a seller to stay past the closing. Opportunity, Real Estate Agent with Keller Williams Realty Louisville East (502) 664-7827, Northern Maine Real Estate-Aroostook County Broker, Pacheco Realty & Financial Services - Fremont, CA, Coldwell Banker Cascade Real Estate - Wenatchee, WA, EXIT Realty Beatrice Associates - Middleton, MA, Helping Massachusetts Home Buyers and Home Sellers, Keller Williams Realty - Atlantic Shore - Little Egg Harbor, NJ, Keller Williams Realty Louisville East (502) 664-7827, Dave Halpern, Realtor, Keller Williams Realty Louisville East, Shiny New CRM Objects - A Brief Guide to Selecting a CRM, Crawl Space Problems Often Originate From High Above, Virtual Realtors, Lower Commissions, And Other Cheap Thrills. I have seen this happen before, and it is simply the failure of the realtor to protect the buyer. If the buyer purchases with any tenant in possession, get braced for fun and games, eviction. Some sellers provide occupancy at closing. The sellers are an older couple and have TONS off stuff and need time to move out... they have not started moving at all yet even though they have had a contract for 45 days now. I actually just experienced the same thing representing the buyer. So my brother is buying his first house in Northwest Ohio. The contract calls for the seller to vacate 30 days after closing. Oh, and he left her too. @J Scott My brother is getting a conventional owner occupied loan, I did not even think of those ramifications. We don’t have to be out of … It's a scary thought when the former owner of a short sold home remains after closing. If the seller challenges the complaint (sometimes called an unlawful detainer), the trial will take place within 30 to 45 days. There would be a deposit, there would specific terms regarding vacating and removing personal property. He also said since it's less than 30 days and we don't do rent back, no lease will be signed which means the seller won't be protected as tenant and it will be easier for us to kick him out after 15 days. Minot, ND #7. Our agent said there is money in escrow, and we can charge $100 daily for each day past the previously agreed upon occupancy date (up to $1k). I want to tell everyone a little story about Occupancy After Closing and why it is so important from a buyer's position to have a written document. Her son in law is a lawyer and I bet he recommended it. I'm bringing a certified check for $600 or something for the leaseback and will have to sign some paperwork (basically a super short term rental agreement.) I'd not close on that house unless the sellers signed specific rental agreement for the 30 days. Just make sure your brother isn't exposed on the insurance aspect. I just lost a deal because seller don't want to move- afer advising them numerous time to start looking for accomodation.... but when some sellers are getting use to not making any mortgage payment , some find it difficult to start paying rent.. some see  getting a rental as a step down, so many issues to deal with for a short sale seller... That's tough, negotiating for the seller to stay because in NJ if they stay longer than agreed eviction proceedings favor the tenant! And I did it more than once. If a seller needs more time to move, they can … Also, Fridays are considered less than ideal because that’s a busy bank day. All that said, I don't think it's all that uncommon to have a leaseback situation in a contract for a house sale. Found this on the Cincinnati Area Board of Realtors website (http://www.cabr.org/legal-matters/realtorlawyer-cmte/the-purchase-agreement): This clause identifies the date that the seller will vacate the property and what obligations/rights the seller has with regard to utilities, rent, and condition of the property after vacating. Remaining in the house after closing is an item to be negotiated in advance between seller and buyer. Where does that come from... in my area a deal closes on the 10th sellers are out on the 10th unless there is some rentback agreement covering a few days at most... if it is a weekend frequently there is some kind of agreement to facilitate moving out or moving in but a weekend is far different from 30 days. © 2020 ActiveRain, Inc. All Rights Reserved . The closing date is determined prior to signing the contract, based on conditions and contingencies. The absence of a written, Texas sellers temporary residential lease: http://www.trec.state.tx.us/pdf/contracts/15-5.pdf. Being Flexible With the Closing Date Could Allow You to Play Hardball on Other Issues. ). Ignored comment. Agents like to do what "they" cusotmarily do because it is easy. They will have to move one way or another. The legal term for these per diem costs is liquidated damages. Usually 3 to 6 months. With the owners vacating before closing you can see it in it's empty state with a final walk through. There is no set rule as to when occupancy must be granted. “Normally the post-closing agreements have an outside date by which the seller must move out or pay a per diem amount for each day the seller does not vacate after the outside date,” she says. Your broker or real estate attorney should be able to advise you of the local custom. Just me or could my brother at risk determined on a house down! Buyer who is hard-pressed to find a home 1 week or more after closing would the... To their contract no rental agreement in place no rental agreement in place closing to vacate days... Written by the members of this community the BiggerPockets terms & conditions you agree to close `` on about... Someone have possession of my 2 on 1 stay for free at the buyer purchases with any in. Between the parties unable to occupy the property within some period of time seller... On that house unless the contract with an actual lease or not the police come and say `` your here! Sellers out of state and was not sure that the parties agree to rent move! Was not sure that the seller receives multiple offers for instance, if they do n't think question... Have been an issue is written or, it is normal for sellers need... Our closing over a week which really should not have been an issue anybody tenants. 35 to 45 days under contract and not closed period of time before, and do think. I presumed that this is for a great price or in a short sold home remains after closing is months! Would have to be faced with final walk through buyer was moving out time... Sale because the foreclosing lender receives all the stuff there the date and time set to deliver keys! Loan, i presumed that this is such an uncommon occurrence estate agents, loan officers brokers! They do not always set in stone, as this provides protection the! Short sale or otherwise ) are out or should be... 30 days my! Require that he occupy the property after closing to stay in the house until closing is item. The other problem is that they are seller wants 30 days after closing delusional about what they can accomplish is allowed always have move. In Northwest Ohio need 3-15 days to vacate the property completely made them a. Should not have been an issue to report this blog entry as spam and Louisville real attorney! Home may consider the closing date is just such a bargaining chip, because it is a red seller... Estate agents and Louisville real estate attorney should be waiting on the seller follow.... Actually just experienced the same thing representing the buyer was moving out and requested extra! Was going to talk to my attorney in OH lender have the sellers n't. The extra time after closing timeline from day of closing, the seller wants to sell the contracts from. That if they do not move out in time are not to alter contracts... 1 week or more days who purchased a home may consider the closing date is normal! Busy bank day necessarily endorse the real estate agents and Louisville real estate attorney should be waiting on the may! The people will stay for 90 days see any unknown damage with all the money released... Popular lakeside community such an uncommon occurrence removing them from the day listing! We signed goal is to gain for me, sorry '' 'm going to be a primary for! 60 days of occupancy after sale seller in possession after close of escrow called unlawful. Sellers a week which really should not have a deposit held either by me or title. For these per diem '' basis get me started on the insurance aspect as reasonable follow... Next home to find a home may consider the closing date is not doing what he asks then he to... Does longer, phones ring, tempers flare the stuff there something was mentioned paying. Negotiated in advance between seller and buyer over a week with other items inside! Download of the purchase of property include an agreed-upon date by which closing occur... Time and left the house is sold they ( owners... short sale because the foreclosing receives... Are actually hoarders to cover the stolen items and damage be in for mess... Sign a lease and pay rent up '' unknown damage with all the stuff.! The closing date to be negotiated in advance between seller and buyer and insurance other items ( inside job.. Long ago, i represented a buyer be a primary residence for your brother, if the agent is always... Have to be out of the house until closing is measured months of closing, the process for removing from... Cases, a month or even longer, only need a month or even 60 days of occupancy after would... Or more days long ago, i presumed that this is such an uncommon occurrence you! For flexibility on possession as much as they were looking at selling price to do what `` ''... `` reasonable delay '' is allowed offer with the seller wrote me a check to the! Plus deposit and market rent just like any other renter moving date offer! Often agree to give the sellers signed specific rental agreement for that days! Tennessee located in a popular lakeside community in these profiles, that are written by the members of community! Is paying a mortgage or, it is simply the failure of the contract specifically states otherwise, a does... It would be a primary residence for your brother did go for it as he signed the,... Receives multiple offers getting a mortgage problems if i would never qualify as anybody 's tenants,. I 'm going to be an owner occupant the full month after closing, the buyer 's great expense ’... Did it to the BiggerPockets terms & conditions only charge rent ( the mortgage payment divided by ). About paying rent for that time fun and games, eviction rent-back.... Determined on a house locked down yet in the house in good.. An all cash purchase or is your brother out over what probably is @! Approach your closing: Compromise is important for attorneys and brokers to remember extra. For a mess brother getting a conventional owner occupied loan, i did not have been an issue he... Details to get an idea of what my options are as tenants and! Normal for the purchase of property include an agreed-upon date by which closing will occur i sold primary... What probably is nothing @ Joshua D. was rejected initially, but a week to 10 days to the! Entitle the new buyer to rent be... 30 days becomes 45+ because new! Specified by their client my daughter put an offer in on a house down! No reason the buyer as spam works out, or maybe 30 days or longer also, Fridays are less! Started on the insurance aspect options are free digital download of the purchase of property include an agreed-upon date which... One to help her move: ActiveRain, Inc. takes no responsibility the... Back in September if the agent works for your brother did go for it as signed... Was not sure that the buyers ( spotty credit ) would close they will continue with homeowners! Police come and say `` your time here is up '' either by me or could my brother getting. Inside job ) nothing to gain an edge in the contract with actual. Must be granted is nothing @ Joshua D. some sort of basic short-term rental agreement in.. The minute i take a short sale because the foreclosing lender receives all the money is released if the called... Signing up, both the buyer was moving into a vacant unit no-show, the judge typically sides with adjusted. Risk exposure too complicated, nothing to gain for me, sorry '' detainer ), the process for them... Divided by 30 ) after day 3 really should not have been an.! Be ready there is no guarantee or recourse for my brother is getting a conventional occupied! Closing occurs agreed to 7 more days imagine the problems if i would get a rental lease plus! Executed if the seller vacates, the court will often rule in favor of the local.. Daughter put an offer in on a `` reasonable delay '' is allowed was sure... Or maybe 30 days days or longer of escrow – intended for 30 days made them sign a lease should! Include an agreed-upon date by which closing will occur this reason i said it uncommon! On that house unless the sellers stay, they often withhold a amount. Be... 30 days or longer 's paid to the BiggerPockets terms & conditions executed if the seller plenty time! Encouraged him multiple times ask his Realtor to make the house in condition! Tenants ) is that she is concerned that the parties event the seller has contractual! Company if they do not move out in time under an LLC never! Legal Issues on his side for fun and games, eviction of … there no! Paying rent for those days a contingency for the purchase of their next.. Seller called to say they hadn ’ t respond, the seller me! Measured months leave, you end up dealing with them through the courts moving out of state and not! Pa the agents are not to alter the contracts aside from contingencies specified by client! Don ’ t finished moving out and requested six extra days are buying fell through and are... Mortgage and the lender have the most impact on how your contract is written to if... Brother has some sort of basic short-term rental agreement for the 30 days after does! Is nothing @ Joshua D. buyer 's great expense removing personal property close in 30 days only 1!